Heat, Stillness & Belonging: Why We’re Craving Real Connection More Than Ever

What if one of the most powerful wellness tools wasn't just about recovery, detoxification, or longevity, but about human connection?

In this episode of Inside-Out Connections, Tracey-Anne sits down with Chris, founder of The Sauna Project Sydney with partner Georgia, to explore the growing movement of community sauna culture and why so many people are seeking spaces to slow down, reconnect, and simply be.

Drawing from his own experience, Chris shares how a love of contrast therapy evolved into a mission to create a place where strangers become familiar faces, conversations happen naturally, and people rediscover a sense of belonging.

Together they discuss the physical benefits of sauna, the importance of ritual, the power of sitting in stillness, and why community may be one of the most overlooked pillars of wellbeing today.

What We Cover

• How The Sauna Project Sydney came to life
• Why Australia is embracing sauna culture later than Europe
• The difference between recovery and reconnection
• Why people are craving community more now than ever
• The surprising range of people attending community saunas
• How shared discomfort can break down barriers between strangers
• The role of ritual, nature, and stillness in modern life
• Sauna guidelines, frequency, and practical benefits
• The relationship between sauna, sleep, recovery, and nervous system regulation
• Why belonging may be even more important than community itself
• Chris's personal journey with sobriety and finding connection in new ways
• The future of outdoor sauna culture in Australia

Where to Find Chris & Georgia The Sauna Project Sydney

Sydney Bookings: https://www.thesaunaproject.com.au/sydney

Website: https://www.thesaunaproject.com.au

Instagram: @thesaunaproject.sydney

Location: Vaucluse Beach Paddock, Sydney

Share This Episode

If you've ever felt overwhelmed by the noise, busyness, and constant demands of modern life, this conversation is a beautiful reminder that sometimes the most powerful thing we can do is slow down, connect, and remember what it feels like to belong. Whether you're curious about sauna culture, seeking a greater sense of community, or simply looking for a new way to support your wellbeing, this episode offers a refreshing perspective on what it means to reconnect with yourself and others.

If you enjoyed this conversation, please share it with someone who could use a little more stillness, connection, and belonging in their life.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:03

Welcome to Inside Out Connections, where we explore the link between your skin, your gut, emotional health, and your deeper sense of self. I'm your host, Tracy Ann, a wellness coach exploring what it really means to reconnect from the inside out. There's something happening right now. People are searching for connection in a deeper way than ever before. Not just connection to others, but connection to themselves. And interestingly, many are finding it in places you may not expect, like a sauna. But this conversation goes far beyond heat exposure or recovery benefits. It's about what happens when we slow down, step into a shared space, and allow ourselves to be seen without distraction. Today I'm joined by Chris, the founder of the Sauna Project Sydney, to explore the intersection between physical well-being and human connection and why spaces like this are becoming more than just a wellness trend. They're becoming a place of reconnection. Chris, I'm so excited to have you here today. Thank you for coming on the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Thanks so much for having me, Tracy. I am excited to be here too. And a little bit nervous, but mainly excited.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

That's good. That's good. Nerves are good. Let's start at the beginning. How did the sauna project come about?

SPEAKER_01 1:32

I suppose the sauna project came about with my kind of like personal sauna practice. Um I was thinking about it last night because I had a quick read through what potentially we're going to talk about. I've sort of always just been obsessed with this idea of contrast and physical contrast. And I remember as a kid, mum and dad would take us away on a holiday. And if the if the hotel had a pool, I'd just do laps between the cold pool and the spa, if there was a spa, if we were lucky enough. So I've always been into that hot cold. And then through my teens, I did a lot of running and I got introduced to the sauna as like a recovery tool. And then I stopped running. And I realized that the sauna wasn't just for recovery. It was a place that I was able to connect with myself at the moment in our in our sauna with nature and then also with other people. And you know, something was happening, not just physically but mentally, that was like incredibly transformative and positive.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

Yeah. That that's kind of like where my love of sauna came from.

SPEAKER_02 2:32

And so then obviously you saw a gap or a niche in the market for this in Sydney, where it was like, hang on, like I'm missing the sauna. I want to do this is how did it come about to actually going, okay, I'm going to turn this into a business idea?

SPEAKER_01 2:48

I suppose through a bit of travel. So I mean, Australia, we're pretty new to the idea of like a sauna culture. I mean if you go and jump in a sauna in in Northern Europe, it's a place where people connect. Often it's out in nature. In in Australia, like our saunas, we've got a lot of infrared saunas that are like connected to gyms or a gym membership. And then bathhouse culture is kind of just starting out. But a lot of those still, like either it's a silent sauna or you sit in often with ear pods on, or you know, some people go and put their phone on the other side of the glass and watch the footy, which is there's nothing wrong with that. That's also awesome. I I definitely saw the the gap in the market for like wild sauna, outdoor sauntering, being able to step out of a sauna into fresh air, into nature, which is traditionally like hundreds of years ago, how it was done. I mean, that was kind of it. And we we cruised over to New Zealand a couple of years ago. Uh Georgia, my partner, who is also in the business with me and a big, big part of the community, does most of the work to be honest.

SPEAKER_02 3:43

Her cousins to Georgia, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Yeah. Absolute. Huge shout out. She should be doing the interview, to be honest. Um her cousins live in a place called Mount Amonganui, which is like North Island of New Zealand on the East Coast. Beautiful, beautiful spot. Very, very similar to the south coast of New South Wales. And they were getting married there. And we went and jumped in a sauna one afternoon at this place called Pilot Bay, small town. I was in the sauna with a primary school teacher, which I am, Georgia also, a hairdresser, like the town like politician. And it turned out those guys attended that session every week and it was like part of their ritual. They'd met in the sauna, all very different people from different walks of life. I was like, holy moly, this would this would work at home. And yeah, the the feeling you kind of have when you when you cruise out of that situation, it's epic. I mean, that that's what we're trying to do.

SPEAKER_02 4:35

And that's what it that's what it's about, isn't it? Connection. And like you said earlier, learning about connecting with yourself, but also connecting with other people. I mean, that's what we're wired for, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:47

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

And so we're when going into these gyms, and often a lot of those infrared ones, like you said, are tiny. They're like one people ones or barely even two, right? So it's quite a solo experience, which I mean can have benefits in itself, but there's something powerful about community.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Yeah, absolutely. And I think the other thing with it is like it's I I'm not sure whether it's like a colonial thing or an Australian thing or a southern hemisphere thing, but a lot of us feel really uncomfortable in those situations, which I think is quite telling. Yeah. I mean, obviously we're in our swimwear, we're in a sweaty little box with people potentially we don't yeah, we don't know very well. Um but it's really interesting. I mean, you you jump into a sauna in Austria or Germany, and you know, you're like squashed like sardines and everyone's naked, and it's so like contextually unsexualized and safe. And I mean, that's another really interesting phenomena at our sauna. We seat nine people, it's not like super squashy, and often we'll have groups of two, three, and then maybe a few people who have just rocked up solo and the sessions just surprise you. It's not very soundproof, our sauna. So, like in cruise out of running like an alphus, which is like our essential all-infusion. And sometimes like I won't hear a peep. And that's awesome because you know, the the session is super meditative and quiet, and people are just, you know, they've come to sit. And sometimes you'll just hear laughter and chat and voices, and both make me feel great. And both, I think, both are awesome for the for the people inside. It is interesting how some of us can feel, and I'm part of that as well. We can feel uncomfortable in in those spaces.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

So good to lean into the uncomfortable though, because that's where the sweet spot is.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

So who is actually coming into your space? Is it mostly a younger crowd or are you seeing a real mix of ages?

SPEAKER_01 6:39

Real mix of ages, to be honest. Like we're we're located up at Vauclues at the moment. So a really interesting area. Um beautiful. We're at a place called Vaucluse Beach Paddock, which is just at the bottom of Vaucluse house, like very historic piece of land. Lots of people use the space for events, weddings. I think the Great Gatsby was was filmed up there or part of the Great Gatsby. So it's really beautiful space.

SPEAKER_03 7:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:03

Yeah. And the sauna sits on this walk uh called the Hermitage Trail Walk, which you can actually walk now all the way from Bondi to Manley along this um postal track. And yeah, we get our regulars who a lot of like the young sort of Bondi crew who are often in the wellness space already. So Pilates teachers, yoga teachers, or people who have memberships to those studios from Bondi all the way to Koji, and they cruise up and they're like, oh my goodness, I don't feel like we're in Sydney anymore. It wasn't really on purpose. We found it really hard to get a spot. It does feel like that. So we definitely get like a young, fitness, wellness-oriented crew. But then we also get an older, I don't know how to say it, like affluent crew who live up in that area. Obviously, it's like a pretty special, like highly sought-after part of Sydney. For sure. Like we get people who have, you know, saunas in their houses who are choosing to come and sauna with us and really like big Jewish community up there. So like Friday night, we'll get La Prix, Friday night dinner, a bunch of men who come and do their session and lots of father-daughters, which is really interesting. Whose daughters are like in in high school who come up. It's it's pretty mixed. And and that's kind of the point. I want it to be as diverse and and mixed as possible.

SPEAKER_02 8:16

So when you so when people come along, so you're open from early in the morning?

SPEAKER_01 8:21

We actually open evening. So yeah, we means.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

Oh, so no mornings?

SPEAKER_01 8:25

Yeah. Okay. No mornings at the moment. Yeah, we've filed mornings early, but at the moment we're doing evenings. We do uh Sunday all day, but mainly evenings we find. I mean, sauntering in the morning is fantastic, but it's hard because lots of people are getting their their gym.

SPEAKER_02 8:41

Yeah, the gym. And yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

Yeah. And there's a bit of research around circadian rhythms and how like potentially sauntering in the afternoon is better for you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:52

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

I think we kind of cruise, you might know more, but I think generally when we're three o'clock, we're reaching for our second coffee chocolate bar. Or chocolate bar or whatever it is. And that's because naturally we're kind of cruising into the evening. And then if we jump in the sauna and spike our our body temperature again, you come up and then you come down even further. And that's part of the reason you have this fantastic feeling and sleep after a sauna session.

SPEAKER_02 9:15

And so you mentioned at the beginning, Chris, how you just loved going from hot to cold, cold to hot. So your sauna's located on the beach. So does that mean that people are going in and out during the time?

SPEAKER_01 9:31

You book in for an hour. Most of the research out of Finland states that in an hour, three by 10 to 15 minutes at 85 to 95 degrees is is where it's at. We we're a finished sauna, so our sauna's wood fired, which is pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 9:44

Yeah, great smell.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

And the heat's different. It's a really beautiful, I mean, warm is probably the wrong word, but it is a like warm hug kind of heat. So people will will jump in the sauna for 10 to 15 and then cruise down and often jump in the harbour for like five, come back up, have a drink of water, maybe a piece of fruit, we have lollies and some electrolyte, and then jump back in the sauna and they'll repeat that three times within the hour session. Yeah. And that's kind of how it works. I mean, at the moment we've had heaps of rain, so water quality isn't so good. But step out into the rain, tail down, in the grass, just sit for a bit. Perfect. Listen to the water.

SPEAKER_02 10:19

Yeah, you don't want to go in the murky waters of a harbour where there's bull sharks.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

Not at the moment. Yeah, definitely. Definitely not. Yeah. Yeah, which is I and again, like my mum is always texting before this weekend. I'll get a text tomorrow, Friday. I'll get a text and be like, don't put your head under because you know, you're not meant to swim or whatever after two or three weeks.

SPEAKER_02 10:38

I don't think all mums do that. I have two sons or and a daughter, but one of my sons is a surfer. So I'm always sending him everything shark-related. I'm sure I'm sort of creating anxiety for him, but I think it's my anxiety about the sharks. Yeah. It's a real thing.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

Yeah, no, 100%. There was surf at Nielsen Park last week.

SPEAKER_02 10:58

It's it's been Yeah, no, my son's done that before. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 11:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:02

And so it's quite an intimate experience as we discussed, sharing a heated, sweaty space and sitting in silence or in conversation with others. So when do you start to notice those initial walls start to come down with people?

SPEAKER_01 11:18

I think from the beginning, you know, people arrive at different times. And sometimes there'll be like one or two people in the sauna. And it's interesting. I think you walk into a space like that, and as soon as you have eye contact, the subconscious makes us say hello. And that's just that's just an opening. And often what happens is I wait until everyone who was signed up to that particular session rocks up and is sitting in the sauna, and then I'll go in, particularly if it's people who are visiting us for the first time and give the spiel. And often that spiel, I don't know, background in primary school teaching involves like doing the circle and everyone not saying, you know, just saying their name. And then if there's someone who has been there before, I know something about, you might ask them, Oh, I you ran poker half marathon last weekend, had to go or whatever. And then I don't know, that that that's kind of like our role, um, Georgia and I and the staff to kind of like facilitate that sort of sense of community.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

Yeah. Like a yeah. Cause because I mean that's that's the other thing about these spaces is that it's really easy for people who feel comfortable in them to feel comfortable. But sometimes the vibe can just be off. And I mean that's part of the reason we started the business was because you can jump into these sort of spaces, whether they be a sauna or a gym, and straight away it's your first time at a gym and there's some hectic locker situation that you don't know how to press the buttons and in a place you're supposed to feel like really comfortable, calm and you're trying to blend in and you you don't want to stand out.

SPEAKER_02 12:44

So you Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

I know I I felt like that. I joined the yard gym back in December.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:51

And if someone's been training at home for a while and doing Pilates classes, I've done so many gyms through over the years, but this is quite an intense um situation. So it is quite intimidating for people coming into a new space for the first time, especially when everyone seems to know what they're doing. And yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

100%. I mean, I mean, you can jump into the sauna at icebergs, which is a great sauna, beautiful view, goddamn. And you know, we that's kind of.

SPEAKER_02 13:19

Shout out to Sally. She is just a huge believer of sauna benefits and community. She's met so many amazing people by doing what she does every day, just connecting with super interesting people.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

I mean, the iceberg sauna is a really great example of just sometimes you just feel like a fly on the wall and you're listening to these conversations that you may or may not agree with. Yeah. And it's just happening. In a strange way, they're kind of like this like microcosm of life. Because yeah, I I mean, we're probably going to talk about it. But the fact for for me personally, being able to sit still for three times 15 minutes, have an hour off the phone, and then you know, actually do it is uh is a really interesting concept in itself.

SPEAKER_02 14:04

Do you feel like people are really craving that connection now more than ever, especially with the use of phones and is this something you're witnessing more in your space now that people are just wanting to drop their phones and come in and 100%.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

I I think that like that is honestly one of the main reasons why like sauna culture is really growing. Although you still attend some bathhouses. I mean, a lot of bathhouses now are phone free, which is awesome. And they'll make you put your phone in your locker and you can't take it through. And then maybe like if you want to get a quick photo at the end of some beautiful magnesium pool, whatever it is, you're you're allowed to. But some are still I mean, and I I'm not sure why. Maybe it's just like Wouldn't it ruin your phone?

SPEAKER_02 14:44

I think wouldn't I like it?

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Yeah. You can set your phone up with your music on your earpods and then jump into the sauna with your earpods in. But again, there's lots of the heat, plastic, all that kind of stuff. That there's lots of new research, research coming out around that. But I I do think that I mean the phenomena of obviously leaving your phone behind, but also just sitting still for like 15 minutes or 10 minutes or whatever it is is is interesting.

SPEAKER_02 15:10

And that's quite true. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

We we're just rely on all those distractions so much, right? Oh, we're sitting at a bus stop. Oh, okay, everyone else is looking down. I'd be okay. So you ever start looking at your phone, and then you go, oh no, this is really bad. So then you put your airpods in, you listen to a podcast. And I mean, all these things that we're doing are a constant distraction to doing what you said is just simply being and sitting in your thoughts. And there's so much power and wisdom in that.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

Yeah. I I also think there's kind of like this addiction to productivity and having to do something that's moving you forward all the time. And people sauna for different reasons. So people come up to us and maybe they're really into running and they're injured. So they're using the sauna for cardiovascular workout and they really want to have like a sweat. I mean, recovery is 100% like a part of it, but there's you can also use it at like lots of people will use it as a top-up to on their gym session or like a workout.

SPEAKER_02 16:08

Right. So how do they do that? Is that like a certain it's a longer time frame or Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

They'll they'll stay there for a longer session and often be wearing uh wearing a watch like monitoring heart rate or whatever it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For Brian Johnson stuff.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

Um not that I'm a massive fan. But um yeah. And the interesting thing about that is we'll run sessions on a Sunday afternoon and our pet peeve at the sauna project is people who push too hard in the sauna. The whole idea, I think, is to feel better when you leave than when you're rocked up. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 16:41

And I think that's a really important valid point. Just been doing some study on this type of what you're talking about is when we go into this, yeah, I'm gonna go hard or I'm gonna push hard or I'm gonna go for a run, everything's gonna be hardcore, gonna sort of kick some goals, get my own personal best. And and when we do that, we it's like we set an alarm to our nervous system.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 17:08

And you're in that, then you become in that fight or flight, in certain that parasympathetic state.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

The amygdala part of the brain is just pumping and you're like pushing, pushing, pushing.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

That's right. And it's like And it's sending a a signal to our brain that it's it's danger almost.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

And but it's also so like deeply rooted, I think, in everyday life that it's hard to get away from it. And that's the invitation as part of our spiel at every session is to relax and take it easy. Like, are you actually comfortable? We hold a lot of tension in our shoulders or our jaw. Like, are you comfortable where you're sitting? I'd say that, you know, it's not a gym session. If you want to treat it as a gym session, you 100% can. But the invitation is to is to take it easy, which a lot of people find it hard. Sometimes I think it's because people want to get their money's worth, because like they're paid to to be up there. And sometimes I think it's just because maybe there's a little bit of ego attached to seeing out the full 15.

SPEAKER_02 18:05

Do you get people in there that that get overwhelmed or claustrophobic in the space as well? Like newbies.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:14

And what do you do in that situation?

SPEAKER_01 18:17

I mean, the the we're not like a the door isn't closed, like it's an open open door policy. People can walk in and out. No one is trapped in the sauna. I think the the time between sauna sets is like super undervalued, like that contrast time. And I mean, we're new to it here, but when you book into like an onsen or a bathhouse in, you know, other countries, often the idea of booking in for an hour isn't really a thing. It's three hours. So and you'll see all these spaces where people are just like sitting. And when I first visited some of these spots, I was like, you know, what what are these people doing? They're just sitting around in the normal air doing nothing. And it's like that that's that's part of the experience, you know, where time because it's really easy to hyper focus on little every sand trickle going down in the timer.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

Yeah, isn't it true? And then sort of utilizing your time, like you have to write, okay, I've got to do that, tick that off, and then I have to leave there and I've got to tick that off. And but it's there's something really beautiful about taking two to three hours out of your day and just being in nature with the heat, back in the cold.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

It's it's the best. It's the best. I mean, in in terms of people though, feeling uncomfortable, I think that is like one of the biggest uh reasons we started the business. And for some reason, Edith, it seems to attract absolutely beautiful people.

SPEAKER_02 19:43

Would you say that your crowd during the week is different to your Sunday crowd?

SPEAKER_01 19:50

Yeah. I'd say that the the during the week crowd is there to relax. Whereas the Sunday crowd's very social. People choosing to connect at the sauna instead of the pub or, you know, traditional kind of places we used to go. I mean, you you only have to look at some of the data around and and even what the what the bathhouses in Sydney and around the world are doing on Friday nights, for instance, where they're they're having sauna sessions with mocktails and people running in, coming in to do Alfgus or choosing to do that instead of a big night out or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

So just I I just think it's the way moving forward, isn't it? I'm always trying to encourage my sons to go in that direction because it's just this culture that we have here in Australia, but I think not just Australia, a lot of cultures around the world where we just feel the need to drink or go to a restaurant or a bar in order to connect and socialise. But there are so many different ways, like you said, that you can do that now.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

Yeah. And I feel like those places as well are just so full of distractions. Great distractions. Don't get me wrong, they're all fantastic like I love State of Origin last night, fantastic. But yeah, a lot of the time those distractions inhibit, I think, deeper connection.

SPEAKER_03 21:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

If you're sitting with a I mean, if I'm sitting with one of my best mates, you know, on a bar stool and the footies on, or there's it's really hard sometimes for people people walking through. It's hard to sometimes to actually like check in. And I mean that's that's part of the reason personally I don't drink. I'm on the sober train and have have been in that space for a while. The sauna is a hundred percent connected to that in the simplest form, like a replacement for that world. But also in a weird way, you can kind of like get it's like exercise, right? You just feel so great. You get a hell of an eye off it.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:38

Yeah. It lights you up.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:40

Yeah. And also just it gives you a sense of purpose and there are just so many amazing elements to to s saunering. Is that what you call it? Saunering.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

Yeah. Yeah, I think so. That's what I I'm still working it out.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

Yeah. Um So how intentional are you about creating? Community within your space versus letting it unfold naturally.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

That's a really good question.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

I know you said you sort of you spoke about having that school teacher influence and making everyone feel really comfortable. But have you got bigger plans on what it is right now to from a community perspective?

SPEAKER_01 22:22

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think it's a balance because the other thing is that me or Georgia or PJ or any of our staff or facilitators, it's really easy for us to also like hijack sessions.

SPEAKER_03 22:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

And so like it's kind of like this balance between trying to figure out the why and the what people are there. And we have a sauna book club which meets first Friday.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

Everyone communicates.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

No, no, no. Yeah, like we communicate on WhatsApp and then we meet like next Friday, I think it's our sauna book club. And so we have like focus book of the month, like fiction, nonfiction, month to month kind of thing. Sometimes it's really packed. And the other week there was like two or three of us. Sometimes I think you can overcurate as well. I suppose it's part of being a small business owner as well and not being super experienced in this space, but I want to grow the community. I want more people to experience what we've been talking about, like that that high. And part of that is trying to get more things like this going. And it's happening like all over the world and in urban.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

And understanding what people want, right? Like you said, like some people want to come in and have a bit of a mindfulness window at the end of the day, mindfulness Monday, uh, and then like a a chatty Tuesday or something. I don't know, where you have slots that are more interactive or less interactive than others.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

It just depends on what And there's so many, like there's so many stories as well around that. People come and sauna, like their practice or protocol is different and they also attend for different reasons. And the community, we have like a bunch of nurses who come. And last Friday we had this lady come in and she had the worst day at work. You know, and you can just tell on someone's face. And I was just so happy she was there. And and that kind of thing happens a lot. And I can see who's obviously booked in. And I'm like, oh, how's this gonna work? It's like I have seriously.

SPEAKER_03 24:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

But somehow, you know, that's the other, like I have to hand over to the universe because that that's the nature of the the the beast in a weird way.

SPEAKER_02 24:28

And if we want to get really woo-woo, sometimes the universe provides us exactly what we need at the right time.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

A hundred percent. Right. And yeah, I mean, I there's been times when I'm like, oh, do I need to like say that we're not gonna sauna is a place to relax. People come in for different reasons. Maybe we don't need to talk about politics today, whatever it is. But often it's just about actually taking a step back.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

Because like you said, like when you when you put too many rules in place and then it becomes rigid, right?

SPEAKER_04 24:59

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

But there's so much learning in it being a little bit free as well for people that maybe need to speak up. They're not good at boundaries. If somebody's talking too loud, or hey, would you mind just I I don't know. There's so much learning in that, right?

SPEAKER_01 25:15

100%. There's community learning and like the fact that, you know, we want everyone to leave having a good experience. But that's also not always possible, right? Like it's it's particularly as we grow. That's a big thing that I'm working with. We're we're writing like a kind of handbook at the moment as we try to scale a bit. I mean, that's the key. I just want people to understand what we're trying to do and also feel as comfortable as possible. But it's impossible for me to actually make people feel like that. Like, yeah. And you know, and also sometimes like I I get it wrong. I mean, you might want to edit this bit out, but this is very funny. We went away to Byron a couple of weeks ago and we've only left the sauna maybe two weekends. I've got the best people helping out, but we're still really small and it's more cost effective if Georgia and I are kind of just there. And then we went away and a client rocked up. My friend uh Bexie Adam was running the sauna for us on this particular day. And a client rocked up and was like, oh, where's that really like anxious guy with the moustache who never shuts up? Was it and I was like, at first He did not.

SPEAKER_02 26:24

Was your friend just ramping it up? No, that's what she said.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

But I'm like, that is so awesome, you know, like that she said that.

SPEAKER_02 26:31

And then straight away I'm like, oh you're like, oh, god damn, I need to work on myself a bit. Okay, that's how I'm presenting, right? No, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

No, for sure. And on a Friday, like I'm rushing like tomorrow, I'm rushing around all morning like a mad person picking up the fruit, and then I need to clean the sauna and then light it, and then it gets there and then people rock up at three. And I've just had this like four hours of you're like manic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, that like transfers over and it's like, okay, how what can I do? Do I need to go and sit and like do my 20 minutes before the before the session start or whatever it is?

SPEAKER_02 27:03

But uh Oh look, we're only human. We're all just having a human experience, right? Awareness is everything. And sometimes what we deliver or how we are is not how we intend to deliver it, but sometimes how it's received from somebody, right? So there's yeah, there's some different ways that you can look at that.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

For sure, for sure. And yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

But I love what you you spoke about having the like a little a book, a booklet. And I that speaks to the educational piece. Hello, you guys are teachers. What year uh do you teach?

SPEAKER_01 27:38

Uh I teach mainly five, six, yes.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

Yeah, okay, yeah. Yeah, I love I love that. So is that a book for people, uh digital book to hand out of the do's and the don'ts, how to get the best out of your hour or yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

And I mean we we'd have pillars in the sauna ourselves, like as facilitators. And I I kind of felt like why not? Why not just send them out to the ether and see if see if they work? And and that that's the other thing with like we've we've sort of started like a little kind of like broadsheet that goes out monthly around the questions that we get, which which are similar questions to you're asking now, from like logistical questions to sauna benefit questions uh to how should I actually sauna or when's the best, you know, all lots of stuff and we're learning on the go, but really trying to um also get in front of it.

SPEAKER_02 28:32

The the sweet spot is an hour of going in and out four four times in that hour. Three times. Three times, three times, yeah. Yeah, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

I I mean there's there's a lot of contested the rise of infrared, and then also there's these longitudinal studies now, which are like 30, 40 year studies out of Scandinavia, Finland mainly, where all cause mortality, people are living for like 10 years longer, who have saunred for their whole lives. But I think the sauna is obviously like one part of an already pretty healthy lifestyle. And it's so interesting how the questions kind of come in waves. So like there's a lot of people who I think use the sauna for that athletic recovery or relaxation. And then there's lots of men at the moment who are coming in and being really worried about their fertility.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 29:16

Because there's all this Brian Johnson research around sperm count going down with heat, which is a I think it's short term, but I have thoughts on that. But it's also not my job to because I'm not a I'm a primary school teacher, not a scientist. Yeah. But for me personally, my sauna protocol that makes me feel good is going to be different for women, depending on what stage of their cycle is really, really important. And we have lots of women who have feedback around that. Um people, we have different tolerance to the cold. So you can lots of people will will go from the sauna and then go into the cold too quickly and get lightheaded. But basically it's where the blood rushes from your head. The benefit of the contrast is like the opening and closing of all of your like your blood vessels and everything. And then if that happens too quickly, you can start to feel a bit bit unwell. That's another thing like huge in the spiel of every session is you sauna to feel. And often it can be like physical. So, you know, if we get the Sunday morning crew who have had a big night on the Saturday night.

SPEAKER_02 30:14

Yeah, that was my next question. So what do you do about that? There'd be rules around you obviously you can't drink and go into a sauna. But what about those people that are like sweating out their tequila shots from the night before?

SPEAKER_01 30:26

Yeah, you can smell it. You can smell it. It's pretty weird.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

Um Yeah, I mean, uh people book in and they they sign our little well, they tick the little box that signs the waiver that happens. Um people rock up dehydrated. Or, you know, it it's not even that. Sometimes it's like base it off my experience. I'll have a really stressful week and sometimes I'll jump in the sauna and five minutes is enough.

SPEAKER_03 30:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

And I'm like, ooh, we're just not feeling it. And then sometimes I'll have a really stressful week and I'll jump in the sauna and 20 minutes isn't enough. You know, so I think it's one of those things, like anything that listen to your body. You listen to your body and you rock up differently. But managing the people who have had a few drinks, I say something. Like we have this table, which is complimentary, which has electrolytes. So we use sodi at the moment, water, fruit, stuff. And we'll have like we just moved to citrus fruit because it's citrus time, but we had stone fruit before that, and then we'll go to berries, which all have lateral electrolytes in them anyway. And then we'll have a jar of lollies, which, you know, is a bit naughty and they they go the quickest. So I could say the more you hoe into that stuff, the the better you feel after.

SPEAKER_02 31:28

Yeah, you're replenishing what you're losing as well. So you don't feel wiped, especially if you have had a bit of a drink the night before. For sure. So how often should someone be saunering? What's a recommended um we spoke about doing like an hour a day, evening is best. How many times a week for somebody to get real benefits?

SPEAKER_01 31:49

Two to three times a week is my my opinion. Hard logistically, though, when it's an add-on to like everything else. So it it's hard, it's hard to get there. And that's something we find, you know, in a business sense as well. Um but yeah, I mean, ideally, I think that that's where it's at. So like if you can sauna on a Monday, a Wednesday, and then sometime over the weekend, that'd be great. But yeah, I also think that it's not only about sauna. I think if you can have a sweat, and that might that might be through exercise or through doing hot yoga class or a hot whatever it is.

SPEAKER_02 32:24

Yeah, because how could someone integrate it in? So just say if they came to you once or twice a week, how could they integrate that third day without a sauna? I'm wondering what that would look like. Can you get the benefits with a steamy hot shower? Is it the same sort of thing?

SPEAKER_01 32:39

Yeah, yeah. Lots lots of people are doing that, like a warm bath. But uh the only thing with that, they're not it's not super comfortable. Personally, I think having a sweat through exercise is probably where it's at if you're not saunaering.

unknown 32:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:51

And lots of people are doing that anyway, either using the sauna as like an add-on to that.

SPEAKER_02 32:55

What role do rituals play here? The act of entering, sitting, sweating, cooling down. Is there something deeper happening in that rhythm?

SPEAKER_01 33:08

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 33:09

What do you think is the most powerful element besides the heat itself?

SPEAKER_01 33:15

I think just the the window is pretty special at our sauna. I mean, I love the window, just looking out at across the harbour. And you sit there and you notice obviously, like natural environments, particularly beaches, like change week to week. I mean, it's gonna look very different tomorrow when we rock up after all this rain than it did last week. But yeah, the the ritual I think the ritual's like what people subconsciously really, really love. And that's from walking down the little path to our sauna to grabbing one of the stripy towels, having a lolly, and then jumping in. Lots of the time people like to sit in the same seat.

SPEAKER_02 33:50

It's so funny that, isn't it? The same seat. Yeah. I know I mean I'm guilty of doing that too. When I go to the yard gym to train, I go to the same bench. And then I went to go to another bench that this other ladies at, and I thought, oh no, because you just think uh everyone's the territory on their bench.

SPEAKER_03 34:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:08

So you don't want to wear creatures of habit. Yeah. And actually rock someone's world if you've taken their spot. For sure. I'm okay with that. But some I some people I would imagine would get funny about that.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

For sure. I mean, it's interesting in in our sauna because we obviously have a top bench and then a lower bench which is like six to eight degrees cooler.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

Um so where do most people go, top or bottom?

SPEAKER_01 34:32

It depends. So like I'm always like marathon, not a sprint, better to start low and go high. But people just like to jump straight into their high.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

It's like sitting at the backseat of the bus.

SPEAKER_01 34:41

Exactly. Exactly. And and I think the other, like a really important note around how many times we sauna is like you gain heat tolerance. It's like anything. You gain fitness from doing so, in a strange way, it becomes more and more comfortable.

SPEAKER_02 34:56

And you start to crave it. It's like my sons explained that with surfing. Like he craves being out in the cold water.

SPEAKER_01 35:04

100%. Like we we we run kind of this like essential oil infusion called an afgus. And Alfgus literally means like to pour. It's like a German word. And often it's like the most intense part of the session. So basically we pour the water and oil or eucalyptus onto the hot stones, all the heat like rises to the top of the sauna. And then I use a towel to like fan all that air down. And it's like the most intense part of the session for most people, particularly in the first sauna set. Um when people hasn't haven't been in the water, but it's the thing that everyone craves as well. Like it's the thing, it's kind of like a wobbly tooth. Like you kind of like is having it once it's gone.

SPEAKER_02 35:40

Yeah. And from your perspective, Chris, what is the true value of community when it comes to our overall health and well-being?

SPEAKER_01 35:51

I think it's so important. Like I I think the value is in the feeling you have after. You know, particularly these days when you know we're talking about our phone or when we're stressing about the logistics of our like personal lives.

SPEAKER_03 36:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:07

Sometimes getting off self for a bit and listening to someone else or asking questions and trying to be an active listener is like exactly what you need. And yeah, I mean, people crave community. And we we don't even realize that we do. And sometimes for me personally, like I want to like my gut feel is like to isolate, right? That's kind of like my go-to. And like it's the direct opposite action is is what I actually need. And you know, and then that's what what we're trying to to foster, like in a very small way.

SPEAKER_02 36:42

Yeah, and it's so great that you have that awareness, and not many people do have that awareness. Um, I had my mom used to withdraw and isolate. I mean, I feel like when I get really stressed or overwhelmed, I need to be on my own for a minute, but then I just I need people. Like I need a local coffee shop, I need community. That's really important to me to um, I don't know, just like regulate, right?

SPEAKER_01 37:14

A hundred percent. Yeah. I I'm the same. I'm I'm the same. I I mean, again, it's like about balance, right? Like I think which is hard to like what is balance, it's impossible. But that's probably one of the coolest things about the sauna is the community. Two weeks ago I went to this thing called Sauna Fest in New Zealand, which the boy, yeah, I know sounds wild. Um, the boys, the boys over there who have some other sauna project saunas, they put on this festival. It's the fourth year, and they had like 1,100 people at this festival at the Blue Lake in Rotorua. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:48

And so they had like 11 saunas lakeside, and then halfway up the mountain, like another 10, and then at the top of the mountain, like another 10 saunas. And it's like a three-day community festival. Yeah, yeah. So people like are bringing their families and staying in their caravans or tents or like got Airbnbs around the corner. But I was in the blue lake looking back, and here was like 11 full saunas, and I'm like, holy moly. Obviously, those people were into sauntering that bought a ticket for the weekend and yeah, the vibe was just movement.

SPEAKER_02 38:20

It's like a movement, right?

SPEAKER_01 38:21

Yeah, it's it's so cool. So cool.

SPEAKER_02 38:23

Yeah. Well, we know we know about wellness and well-being. We know as much as we like to have a glass of wine here and there, we know ultimately it's not great for us. It does make us feel like shit all the time, whenever we have it. So I think we are looking for alternatives and this space, it's not a new thing. It's been happening for the over the last 10 years. I feel like it's been cultivating, would you say?

SPEAKER_01 38:49

Yeah, absolutely. Whether it be run clubs or social clubs, book clubs, whatever it is, like I think people are realizing that connection's obvious obviously really important. And perhaps we've been a little bit disconnected of like towards the end of my drinking story, I didn't want to drink with other people. Like I was finding myself at home in front of the footy or whatever, solo, which was a strange. You look back on what we were doing. Yeah. Yeah, which I think is really common as well. And and you know, it's not all doom and gloom either. Like I think there's definitely a place for that. But it's uncomfortable, like sometimes I'm exhausted after a day at the sauna. I feel like my social battery is gone. You know?

SPEAKER_02 39:25

And also because you want to make the experience for everyone else memorable and and you want them to experience what you experience. And so a lot of love and effort would go into that. I wanted to touch on as well. I think, you know, we keep talking about the sense of community, but I think the idea is, and when I heard you just speak then it just it made me feel like it's more a sense of belonging.

SPEAKER_00 39:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:52

Right. Like you want to fit in and belong somewhere. It's not just about maybe community is that.

SPEAKER_01 40:01

Oh a hundred percent. And I think where someone knows your name, who you are, which sauna seat you sit on, you know, what's your favorite what's your what you know, what's your go-to, Lolly, or what whatever it is. I I think a hundred percent belonging. Yeah. And and when when you belong somewhere, you feel comfortable. It's it's true. It's important.

SPEAKER_02 40:20

Are there any exciting plans or expansions and expansions in the pipeline for the sauna project?

SPEAKER_01 40:28

Yeah, yeah. It's really hard for us. Um obviously being new, one of the pillars of the connection to nature, our saunas, or the community is connection to nature. So, and in Australia, a lot of red tape with council to find uh spots. But slowly, there's momentum. Lots, lots happening in WA and in Tasmania and in Victoria, and in five or ten years, I think that's gonna be a huge thing. In the UK, in Ireland, it's just kind of like taken off. You know, you go to lots of these really cold beaches where ocean swimming community and they'll do their ocean swim and jump in one of these box saunas that's set up on the beach.

SPEAKER_04 41:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:05

Um so I think eventually it's gotta happen, but at the moment it's hard to scale. We've got to hopefully a second location kicking off in the next couple of months. But how exciting. We'll see.

SPEAKER_02 41:17

Yeah. I love this conversation, Chris. I think it's a really important topic to share, not just about saunas, but about community and that sense of belonging as well. So before we wrap up, I love to offer a moment of reconnection, a few gentle questions I ask every guest. When do you feel most connected to yourself?

SPEAKER_01 41:37

In the sauna. Uh honestly, I think when I'm in the sauna or I'm on a run and I'm outside in nature, doing something that I love.

SPEAKER_03 41:53

That's when I feel most connected.

SPEAKER_02 41:55

Besides sauna, what are your go-to rituals you can't live without?

SPEAKER_01 42:01

I still do a lot of running. It's my my favorite thing to do. I really like running and I really love being in bodies of water. I like swimming particularly. Do you surf as well? Yeah, surf. Yeah, I love surfing.

SPEAKER_02 42:13

Yeah, which beach?

SPEAKER_01 42:14

Yeah, well, I'm from I'm from the northern beaches, so I sort of surfed a lot up there. But since moving to the eastern suburbs, it's I haven't surfed as much. But yeah, we're often down Bondi or Brunty or Tamar.

SPEAKER_02 42:24

Tamar, yeah, my son's always at Tamar. Yeah, nice. Um, what has your body taught you about yourself?

SPEAKER_01 42:33

Uh my body's taught me that I need to be still more. I hear. Yeah, I sometimes I'm just like go, go, go. I mean, we talked about it, and I find it really hard to facilitate time to take it easy. Um and yeah. And I'm not very good at multitasking. So what happens is like I end up just doing nothing particularly well because I'm trying to do too many things at the same time. So that's something I'm really trying to work on, is just still the presence and kind of just like not worry too much about uh the past or the future. Just be a bit more present.

SPEAKER_02 43:21

Just bang.

SPEAKER_01 43:23

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:25

Oh, Chris, thank you so much for coming on. I think what I loved most about this conversation is that it reminds us that well-being isn't always about adding more. Sometimes it's about stripping things back, less noise, less rushing, less distraction, and perhaps more spaces where we can simply sit together, breathe, sweat, laugh, open up, and remember what it feels like to be human again. Where can people find you?

SPEAKER_01 43:52

Uh people can find us up at the Volclues Beach Paddock online with Discord the Sauna Project on Instagram. Would love to have yourself, Tracy, and anyone, your sons.

SPEAKER_02 44:03

Oh, coming on a Sunday. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:04

Yeah, anyone, anyone can come up.

SPEAKER_02 44:07

I'm going to check it out for sure. Thanks so much, Chris.

SPEAKER_01 44:11

Thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 44:17

Thank you for joining me on Inside Out Connections. I hope today's conversation reminds you to tune in and find small ways to self reconnect. If this episode resonated, please share it with a friend or leave a quick review. Come join me on Instagram at insideoutskinGutCoach.